I think people need to stop harping on how much Carol has done for Daryl, in reality she hasn’t done that much. People are always saying how she has reached out to Daryl and she was the only one reaching out to Daryl, truth is it is Rick that has reached out to Daryl from day one and has continued to do so.
Let’s be honest the Atlanta survivors opinion of Daryl was less than glowing until Rick showed up. Okay I’ll say that maybe they were judging him by what they knew of Merle, but no one in that camp reached out to him not even Carol. They were all perfectly willing to take what they could get from him (For example that deer he was hunting when we first meet him), but they certainly weren’t giving him any respect, fear maybe because he was a Dixon, but not respect.
Rick is the one who changed all that. Rick gives Daryl respect. 
Rick gives Daryl trust. Rick is the first one to do so, he has always treated Daryl as more than just another douchebag Dixon. Lori and Shane show exactly how much they ‘care’ about Daryl when they are sitting there calling Merle a douchebag in front of him and arguing against Rick going back to Atlanta. This is Daryl’s brother, his family; and their actions are both cruel and inconsiderate.
When Sophia is lost, Rick publicly puts Daryl in charge of the search. This is more than just Rick acknowledging Daryl’s skills, but an act of trust and respect. It is a statement to the group of Daryl’s value to them. Even at this point the only one reaching out to Daryl is Rick, Carol isn’t doing a thing except crying and moaning over a child she made no attempt to protect.
Daryl is the one who reaches out to Carol. That’s right Carol did not do any reaching out. Daryl did something nice for her, bringing her the Cherokee Rose and relating the legend of how the flower came to be to comfort Carol. When Sophia is finally found Daryl holds her when Rick puts Sophia down and then sits with her in the RV, again to comfort Carol. Thanks to Rick, Daryl finally begins to feel like he is worthy enough to reach out and be nice for once, to someone else in the group. Carol was the one most in need so she is the one he reached out to.
It is Rick all along that supported Daryl’s growth. I know all the ‘romantics’ don’t want to hear this because they are so set on getting Daryl hooked up with Carol. Daryl has not grown because of Carol, Daryl has grown because of Rick. Nothing romantic about it, Rick just treated Daryl like a man worthy of respect; And that gave Daryl the opportunity and encouragement to act like a man worthy of respect.
If Carol was to die tomorrow, Daryl would mourn her loss just like he mourned the loss of Dale but it is not going to make some profound impression on his life. She hasn’t done anything for him, he has done for her. And anything she does do, is simply her trying to hang on to him.
All Carol really has done is latched onto Daryl as a replacement for Ed and Sophia. That little ‘I won’t let you pull away’ speech was for Carol’s benefit, not Daryl’s. Daryl was completely right when he read Carol the riot act.
I agree with part of it.
First, about Rick: he was a damn lady justice with pants when it’s about moral and ethics and doing what’s right at that time. Blindfolded and with a balance in his hands.
He went with Daryl and the others back for Merle but not because of Daryl or because he respected or trusted him, it’s that sense of doing what’s right that compelled him do things. Not doing right by Daryl, but by himself because he was a man who couldn’t let things go against what he believes.
He trusted everyone equally, he gave everyone opportunities to prove themselves. He let Shane prove himself many, countless time not only because he was his long time friend, but because he was like that at the time: an overly democratic leader that trusted more than was reasonably necessary. Not because he did trust them, but because that’s what he thought was the rightful thing to do.
I’m not saying that Rick was a complete fool trusting everyone like that, he placed his trust but he also kept a close eye on them. He saw Daryl proving himself time and again; yet Shane, well…
You can see Rick’s ideals crumbling little by little and he starts showing how his trust really works with others as the series goes until he snaps, kills Shane and tells that the group wouldn’t function as a democracy anymore. And, at one conversation he had with Daryl, we get a glimpse of how he trusts the hunter: Rick asks Daryl that now he’s free to go without them, he clearly says that the hunter has no ties with the group and he’s free to do whatever he wants anytime he wants. Someone like that isn’t a person one completely trusts, someone who, any day could say “fuck this shit, I’m doing this survival thing alone” without so much an explanation. He feared he was placing his trust in Daryl for the latter just one day up and leave them alone. He was saying that he couldn’t put his trust in someone like that.
Rick was the one to put Daryl in charge of Sophia’s search, but everyone agreed with that decision too and I’m sure they would have mentioned Daryl’s name if he didn’t. And that’s not because of trust or respect but because there wasn’t anyone better than him to do the job in the first place, it was the most logical decision: a little girl’s life was in danger, it wasn’t a bros before hoes matter.
As for the group: I agree that everyone trusted Daryl’s skills but didn’t trust him per se. Sure, they didn’t like him, but can you really blame them? Racist, white supremacist, volatile, right down rude and offensive with anyone (not only PoC) and possible drug addict (Merle is, incontestably; it’s only natural they thought that of Daryl too): not a good first impression. And they did feared him, he’s was a time bomb ready to explode with them.
It’s like the police: you might not like them, but they’ll keep doing they job protecting (or not) you and you’ll keep using it or protesting about it when needed.
As for Carol, specifically, I agree that she didn’t reach out to Daryl ~initially~ but did you really think she could leave her husband’s side to do that? And I don’t agreed with you when you say she did nothing to protect her daughter. She was always with the girl, protecting her with her own body and keeping her close when there was danger. She thought (as everyone else) that they were safe, Carl and Sophia weren’t even that far away from Lori and her when everything happened. When Sophia’s lost, she can’t do anything to save her girl and she knows that: she’s weak, never fought anyone, can’t defend herself and have zero survival skills. If she really wanted her girl back, the only thing she could do was wait while the others did the work and she said so herself: not knowing, waiting for concrete news were killing her. It’s not easy to be dependable, even when you’re used to it.
So, of course it was Daryl who reached out first to Carol. It’s easy to reach out to others when it’s not you suffering.
I don’t agreed with you when you said that Carol latched to Daryl as a replacement for Ed and Sophia. I can’t see that. After Sophia’s funeral he distanced himself from the group. She never went after him, she let him be, respected his wish. She did went after him when they couldn’t find Lori, not because of herself or him, but because of Lori. And when she realized he was cutting himself off of the group, then, and only then, she intervened, asking him to not do exactly that. She said he earned his place within the group not with her.
Before that, he didn’t care about the group, after that, he accepted Rick’s offer to be “second in command”.
So. Rick helped? Yes, but I think Daryl is the one who did the most for himself. He’s the one who matured and grew by his own merits. What I believe helped most: Merle’s absence and Rick’s good influence. Without the vicious presence and shadow of his brother, Daryl was able take decisions for himself and mirror his behavior on something positive.
Eek, I’ll stop now!
Quite a lot to respond to but I will try to be a simple as I can in my response.
Point number one Rick treated every one equally including Daryl, he did not prejudge Daryl or treat Daryl like shit because he was a Dixon which is pretty much what you sense the group has done all along. The fact that Lori and Shane sit around calling Merle a douchebag and saying that Merle is not worth saving without any thought to Daryl’s feelings show exactly how the group feels about him.
And that is point number two, no one in that group thought Daryl was worthy of even the most basic common courtesy until Rick came along and treated him like a person worthy of respect. No one else ever gave Daryl a chance to be included in anything.
As far as the Daryl did not care comment, if Daryl didn’t care about the welfare of the group he would never have been out hunting for food to feed them when Merle went with Glenn’s group to Atlanta where they met Rick. If Daryl didn’t care about the welfare of the group and the people in that group he would not have risked his ass going to the Vatos hideout to rescue Glenn, he would have Said “See ya!” and gone off to look for Merle when Rick gave him the chance.
The changes in Daryl were sparked by the fact that Rick does what no one else around him did, acknowledged him as a person with feelings and needs just like everyone else.
I’m sorry if my comment was too long. English isn’t my first language and sometimes I feel the need to write more or I think I wouldn’t be understood.
I meant to say that I agreed with your first point. As your second point, I don’t think we can assume what’s it was like before Rick came as we came with him to the camp. And, as I said, Merle and Daryl did gave them reason to not be completely trustful.
Also I didn’t mean Daryl didn’t care for the group. He himself said so to Lori, Carol and Dale that he didn’t care at that specific time (I don’t think he was telling the truth, but that’s another discussion). And I really believe he cared and still cares about them. But it’s undeniably that he was cutting himself from the group, trying maybe not to care or appear not to. That’s what I think Carol tried to avoid when she went to talk and told him she wouldn’t let him pull away. After that, he’s back at the meeting about Randall (late, but he’s there) and acknowledges her by nodding. That wasn’t unintentional, he changed his mind after that and even more after Dale’s death (and subsequent offer as second in command).
So, let’s see if I can do it quickly this time!
I agreed partly with you, but, as I said, I also think Merle’s absence was important to Daryl’s grow, not only Rick’s positive influence, as partly of Rick’s choices was based in logic and survival not only trust. And, of course, the man himself deserve merits for taking those opportunities life gave him and being that awesome self.
Damn…
“I agree partly with you” not “agreed”. Sorry about that.
Don’t apologize I understand completely.
The thing is that we do know exactly how the group sees Daryl before he ever appears from the discussion around the campfire when they are trying to decide who is going to tell Daryl about Merle. They view him as just another racist Dixon. This view is obviously wrong because when he has the chance to walk away and go hunt for Merle, he stays with Rick and T-Dog to rescue Glenn, an Asian. He goes on to make Glenn his ‘drinking buddy’ in TS-19. So the idea that he is a racist like Merle is wrong but the group never gave him the time of day to find out who he was.
That is the problem no one even tried to find out who Daryl really was until Rick Came along. As far as Rick not trusting Daryl, I think Rick does Trust Daryl, what he does not do is take Daryl for granted.
Being a mother Even the weakest of mothers will not stand by and let their child be harmed. A mother who wants her child and does not consider that child a burden will protect that child even it they put themselves at risk, it’s called Maternal instinct. Carol does nothing except point fingers and blame others when she herself has made no effort on Sophia’s behalf.
Daryl reaches out to Carol and she latches on to him not for Daryl’s benefit but for her own. Daryl pegged it when he said she had no husband and no child so she was scared. She couldn’t even let him have a little space which is what he needed.
Daryl did not pull away from the group, Daryl is not used to being around people so he needed space. He moved his campsite yes, but if he had really wanted to pull away from the group, he would not have stayed on the farm where everyone could find him and just walk up to him. Not only did he stay he made sure that he was in a spot where everyone could find him.
I really interpreted things differently.
Daryl was a racist. I can’t see it any other way, he was. He went with T-Dog and Rick to rescue Gleen because he thought they could found Merle there too. The second time, he had no other option: without his brother, he sticked with the group or he could go away alone, Rick gives him these options. Logically, his survival instincts tell him to go with them. As for “drinking buddy”, I don’t think he was that friendly with Gleen. His phrasing, voice and even his facial expression was really sarcastic when he said he wanted Gleen to drink so he could see how red his face would get. Gleen himself gives an awkward laugh after that, he’s not comfortable with that.
He might not be a white supremacist like Merle but his speech is racist at the beginning of the series.
What I think we disagree more is Daryl himself. Please, correct me if I’m wrong, but what I could learn from your opinions is that you think Daryl was a good person from the beginning and the other characters just disregarded him as someone not worth of trust. And that Rick helped them to see that they were wrong.
Well, I believe Daryl was a person that really didn’t inspired trust. That group accepted anyone: there was a family with father, mother and kids, family with only mother and kid, there was Jim, T-Dog and Jacqui (all alone), family with only two sisters, family with an abusive husband… why wouldn’t they accept a family with two brothers too? It’s not prejudice against their looks, it can’t be. They accepted them there and all worked to survive together, it was a community. They, the Dixon brothers, must had done something to inspire such distrust. It’s what I was talking about earlier on my first comment: racist, volatile, offensive… They inspired fear maybe because they wanted to be feared.
Maybe they were used to be the two of them against the world and attack was their best defense, their only known defense.
So, as I said, I don’t think Daryl was a good person at the beginning, but away from his brother and with a positive leader, I believe Daryl matured as a human being. He learned that he could trust a black and an asian, he learned to voice his opinions without a raised fist – at the beginning, there wasn’t a discussion where Daryl didn’t tried to punch someone (with reason, that someone being Shane most of the time), now he listens and quietly gives his opinion. He’s growing up, he’s better.
I’ll agree to disagree with you about Carol.
I think it’s fascinating how we can get such different interpretations about the same show, same acting, same script etc… Thanks for bearing with me, it’s unusual to find people to talk about different views without a fight breaking up.
Being black, I have dealt with racists and I have dealt with people who are not and trust me, Daryl is not a racist. Merle is a racist. Daryl if he was a racist would not have gone to save Glenn and he definitely would not have saved T-Dog on the highway. Both times he chose to willingly put his own life at risk for someone who was not white. That is not the action of a racist
Daryl grew up in an environment where he had to parrot what he was taught or pay the consequences. Once out of that environment (Merle is gone) he no longer has to put on that front. Believe me if Daryl was really a racist, Merle’s disappearance would make no difference, he would still be as much of a racist as he was in the beginning because it would not be a case of parroting what Merle says and does for his own protection, it would be the way he actually thinks and believes.
Much of what people see as Daryl being a ‘bad’ person is because Daryl does not have well developed skills in dealing with others outside of his family and from what we have seen with the example of Merle, his family is not very social. And yes he was making Glenn his drinking buddy. I know a lot of ‘rednecks’ and that whole exchange about how red Glenn’s face can get is not sarcastic in a mean way, it is normal fun in a lot of social situations when dealing with some groups. For some of them drinking each other under the table is a form of fun.
As for Carol. being a mother myself, there is no way I would just stand around while my child is in danger and I don’t know a mother that has bonded with her child that would. It is unnatural how Carol reacts. And she certainly had no place blaming Rick when he risked his life for her child while she just stood there. Carol spends a lot of time pointing fingers at others who do what she should but will not on her behalf.